See Loading Notes for more information.". He does not have a lot of time to practice, so I think we are just following the path that the compound bow set some 30 years ago. I had to step away for a while to digest the stupidity of ANY smokeless in a muzzle loader and the minds eye pictures of dead or torn up shooters! Accurate 5744 is an extremely fast burning, double-base, extruded powder. Previous Thread; Next Thread; Please make a selection first; new « Prev; 1; Next » shorty500 327 Meteor. she's cool about it, and is a pro at filling out the background check form. 3. the guy comes over and i think possibly another boolit caster and so i ask him which calibers he was gonna try the 5744 in. Box of 50xtps is cheap. It is just plain more fun. In the vast majority of states in this country, nitrocellulose based smokeless powder is a legal propellant in muzzleloaders designed for its use. They can get 700% more cash out of your pocket with every shot in a special "muzzleloading propellant" labeled box. ", "Which brings me to my next point, excess projectile range contributes to nearly no hunting accidents. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data. They sell them in 5 packs so they must not last long , would bet you would get a heavy back flash with a reg nipple. dipper (45.2 grains equivalent) in volumetric loading has given sub-MOA accuracy with all four of the above Dead Centersbullet weights. The 45 grains of 5744 (which is, by the way, a powder that Savage recommends) offers all the power that a deer hunter needs, and then some. We had bloke years ago at my range shoot a mix of shotgun powder and black in a Parker Hale two band 577 because it didn't need as much cleaning. 260 gr./.40 caliber Dead Center Bullet 2.080 f.p.s. Accurate 5744 is an unusual double-base extruded powder which ignites easily and tends to take up quite a bit of volume within the cartridge. Accurate 5744 . Yep, I love those flintlocks.:mrgreen:[/QUOTE]. The URL is placed here so those who wish to can read the document in its entirety, and in context. One of the more reasoned comments from this little discussion is quoted here: "I am writing regarding the proposed ban on the use of smokeless powder muzzleloaders for deer hunting here in Indiana. This is one sweet deal for pellet sellers. years ago, I remember listening to several experienced reloaders discussing smokeless in ML's. Yes, hunting accidents occur, but they are usually from negligent handling of a firearm. Well, I guess I'm going to stir the pot a little since what I have to say is going to cut across the grain of what has been said so far. 250 gr. Likely you have already guessed the most well known of these, TNT, or trinitrotoluene. Fagitaboutit ! This unique powder can be used in a … If anyone has any doubt about the purpose of Triple Seven, here's a direct quote from the Hodgdon web site that makes it quite clear: "Q: If I use equal volumes of black powder and Triple Seven, will there be a difference in performance? General Discussion. Sep 18, 2017 #1 I have a 50 cal. IP Logged . I know of a few knowledgeable boys who have modified their M-700 muzzle loaders significantly and use smokeless, but the modifications are what allows them to use them. Any state that investigates the matter honestly and forthrightly will quickly come to the realization that if they allow Pyrodex, American Pioneer, Triple Se7en, or flammable pellets or sticks they are already allowing smokeless propellants as classified by the United States Department of Transportation (Class 1.3 hazardous materials). That is good for over 160 shots, less than eleven cents a shot. The Lounge. All of these forms of gunpowder burn, producing a subsonic deflagration wave rather than the supersonic detonation wave that high explosives can produce. Savage ML 10 is classed as a muzzle loader. when another customer comes in and asks for some aa-5744. Chamber dimensions: It is extremely important to note that due to aftermarket modifications and forcertainfactoryproducedsemi-autopistols,somepistolshavechamberconfig-urations that do not fully support the chambered cartridge case. Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2021 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved. two patches of Hoppe’s #9 solvent soaked patches over a brass brush to clean To think that gluconic acid salts could possibly be given legislative preference over a recommended nitrocellulose based propellant seems like a sick joke of some sort. Cannot find any load data for 38-40 . And, if you are guessing that most of that extra seventy cents a shot that it costs you is spelled "profit," you are on the right track again. Pat. There is nothing on the website to clarify whether or not they have been tested. MtGun44: thanks for posting that last info. Takes a long POWDER COLUMN, as in .444 Marlin or .45-70 Springfield, to put 5744 to work. Other Handguns. You can find Accurate Arms 5744 for $17 a pound. Not only forgiving in the ignition sense, it is very easy to volumetrically measure with the yellow Lee 3.4cc smokeless powder dipper. Reduced Loads With Accurate 5744 - posted in Guns, Loads, Optics and Gear for Varmint Hunting: This thread is in response to a mention of reduced loads right here.Terry Wieland wrote an article titled “Against the Stream” in the HandLoading column of the January/February 2006 issue of Petersen’s RifleShooter. If you have any questions about the forum please visit the FAQ section or email community@oodmag.com. The sport of muzzleloading is evolving rapidly. I decided to try some different powders for this article, since Savage had already done the work with the powders listed. Supporting Member. The loads listed by Savage will beat black powder loads, with the same bullet weights, by several hundred feet-per-second. Links. If 5744 is the powder you want to use, then you have to learn to adapt your methods to conform with the powder. May 6, 2020 Thread starter dickieray; Start date Sep 18, 2017; dickieray Happy to be here. Made into a paste with 20% water, it can then ship as a flammable solid--see the D.O.T. Bless the hearts of those traditionalists because they started the (special muzzleloading) seasons, but now it's expanded, and to do this you have to welcome everyone. Powder is free compared to triple seven or pyrodex. Sights were a tang mounted peep rear with a blade front. This is one sweet deal for pellet sellers. All rights reserved. I think we all ought to get together. … We are following the same course that compound bows did. It is not only the gun that need the improvement. I shot FFFFg in my Pieta replica 1860 Army today. It is sensitive to impact and friction. If you guessing that pellets are cheap to make, you are guessing correctly. This is a load that is easy on the shoulder, but has plenty of power for whitetail deer. Historically gunpowder has meant black powder, but modern references mean smokeless powder when referring to small arms propellants, as it is so common. It is bizarre to suggest that these, the most recent propellants used in muzzleloading are in any way "primitive" compared to nitrocellulose based Accurate Arms 5744 that has been around for a lot longer. Accurate 5744 is also a great choice for straight-walled cartridges such as the.444 Marlin,.458 Winchester Magnum,.450 BushMaster and the.45-70 Government, especially with lead bullets. I myself need a lot of shooting practice in order to reach the 1.5 inch MOA. Gallery. Many of the smokeless powder weapons are only used by hunters during the muzzleloader season, when relatively few hunters are in the woods, because they use an auto-loading shotgun or handgun during firearms season. You need to encourage the powder to burn cleanly. From someone who actually OWNS one and shoots it. 48 grs? Accurate’s powders hung in limbo for some time, overshadowed by Alliant, Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders – until Western bought … Savage for the smokeless powder, 5744 was one of the powders recommended IIRC. There's some info on this in Terry Wieland's book Dangerous Game Rifles. One example is using a pound of Accurate Arms 5744 powder. There is mention of using 5744 (and Vitavouri N110 and IMR 4227) in a Savage Model 10MLSS-II on GunBlast: http://www.gunblast.com/SavageML10.htm. Could his shoot 200, probably. 9 and 1680.5744 Is not intended to set new velocity records. U.S.A. – - (Ammoland.com)- Accurate Arms introduced 5744 some years ago advertising it as a good powder for reduced loads in large rifle cases. I also have an 1860 Army and will try FFFFg in it@ 20 & 25 gr. For the popular 3 pellet loads, that is seventy-five cents (or more) per shot. TC ProHunter muzzleloader shooting 45 caliber 250 grain Hornady XTP's in sabots. I loaded 5744 during development of the .357 Maximum, but switched primarily to Winchester 680 and IMR/H4227 … Practice, practice practice! Out here in the PNW it seems to be the Alliant (or whoever makes it now) 2400 crowd. Accurate has re introduced5744.5744 Is a short cut, extruded, double base rifle propellant.Its burn rate is between our No. Let's say I'm shooting a 7mm Mag. Only marketing tactics can suggest that Pyrodex, Triple Se7en, American Pioneer, and other synthetic replacements are something OTHER than smokeless powder. Shucks, let's get some velocity goin' here. too … The Midwesterners seem to be the 5744 crowd in the military benchrest shooting. Accurate uses the best ballistic technicians and the highest quality components together to assure that every gun is better served with Accurate Powders Accurate 5744 is an extremely fast burning, double-base, extruded powder. Read all you can about the old buffalo rifles, read what P Mathews has written. I am a graduate of Purdue, an honors graduate of the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy, a Lieutenant on the Madison County Sheriff's Dept., a certified firearms instructor, and a SWAT member/trainer. It doesn't take savvy Game Departments long to understand that there are better things to do than worry about whether a tax-paying hunter is burning a pile of synthetic pellets to fill his tag, or shoots cleaner, safer, more economical nitrocellulose based propellants to accomplish the same goal, at the same ranges. For the by now hoary modern vs. traditional debate, Tony Knight summed things up well, in a recent interview published in the American Rifleman: "I respect someone's choice to stay traditional, but the average hunter wants to use the most modern equipment that's easy to use. Copyright 2005, 2015 by Randy Wakeman. That prints a lot of "black powder replacement" or "muzzleloading propellant" labels. Isn't there a muzzle loader that's specifically made to use smokeless? As a double-base, it is less position sensitive and tends to produce consistent pressure and velocity in larger cases without using a buffer. ", It was only a year and a half or so ago that neighboring state Indiana had a public discussion of moving to outlaw smokeless powder. The main advantage for me is the easy loading, and the accuracy. Well, that is the case according to the United State's most respected forensic lab dealing with bomb residue identification. 11 0 0. Yeah, Savage made a MLer specifically for smokeless, but I think that is the only one. Low bulky density and superior ignition characteristics make 5744 an excellent choice for reduced loads in … right near where i was standing. Smokeless powder is defined, designated, and regulated by the United States Department of Transportation and the National Fire Protection Association, as is black powder. Single-Action Revolvers. This is obviously aimed at lead bullets. Accurate Arms was incorporated in McEwen, Tennessee, in 1980, after several years of selling surplus powders from the U.S. government. If so, why would somebody want one of those? All powders … Even an archer can shoot several arrows before we can get a second shot ready to go. Accurate 5744 smokeless powder is an extremely fast burning, double-base, extruded powder. I'm proud that my home state of Illinois has clearly, concisely changed their regulations this year, effective 6/24/2005 to read: "3) Only black powder or a 'black powder substitute' such as Pyrodex may be used. I have also been hunting since I was 13 years old, about 22 years. Was that Goex ? That will net you in the area of 180 shots with full-powered loads. Their "fuel base" can be ascorbic acid, gluconic acid salts, and a variety of additives to burn hotter, cleaner, and more efficiently than black powder. Accurate's 5744 is not available as of this writing but officials of the company assure me that work is progressing to offer this superlative powder for the "old" gun shooter once again. Accurate 5744 is just as versatile as the 4895s. Our technicians also … The large bright red warning labels on all sides of the bags say "avoid heat or flame, when heated to decomposition emits highly toxic fumes of cyanide.". Seems like the whole smokeless in a ML is a pretty dangerous place to go. If so what is the … Obviously, you need to load your muzzleloader in accordance with the respective gun manufacturer's rules, and that is true with any propellant. They are provably, clearly, not black powder equivalents chemically, by velocity, weight, residue, or by any rational basis. 5744 is cleaner and safer to handle, use, and store than any of these other sulfurless propellants. You also need to look at spotting scope, … In the words of Hodgdon Powder Company: "highest velocity possible" . I have to get special sabots and magnum … Here's an eye-opener: Triple Se7en pellets can cost upwards of $25 per box of 100 pellets. All of these starting loads produce generous velocity, energy, and terminal performance to quickly, humanely harvest deer-sized game to 300 yards. There really isn't much mysterious about nitrocellulose powder muzzleloading in a rifle designed for it, whether you are shooting a Savage 10ML-II, an SMI model, or a New Ultra Light Arms frontloader. This is SMOKELESS powder do not use it in any muzzleloader not designed for smokeless powder. Accurate 5744. From the day they first announced that one brand of muzzle loading rifle that would utilize smokeless powder I have claimed that they will get people maimed and killed using smokeless powder in an inappropriate rifle! You would be hard-pressed to find a bow hunting household in this nation that does not have a compound bow in it. Modern smokeless powders (nitrocellulose-based) are an approved black powder substitute only in muzzleloading firearms that are specifically designed for their use. ", "One thing causes accidents, and it's not range of projectile, it is NEGLIGENCE. Joined Jan 5, 2017 Messages 243 Location Browns Summit, NC. They have absolutely nothing chemically in common with black powder, they are not at all similar in performance, and they are also not equivalent in weight. As I'm sure most of you know by now, my muzzleloading rifle of choice these days is the Savage Model 10ML II.Not only does this rifle give me added velocity, knockdown power and slightly more range than any other .50 caliber in-line on the market thanks to the smokeless loads that can be shot through the muzzleloader, this rifle also allows me to use the same rifle to test loads with other "traditional" … ", "My smokeless muzzleloader, with the load I hunt with is 40 grains of 5744 with a 250 grain bullet that kills deer very swiftly, and humanely. I have never investigated a hunting accident that occurred because of excess range. This modification is incorporated to aid in the reliable feeding of the round from the magazine. Accurate Arms 5744 distinguishes it self as it is the easiest powder to ignite regardless of sabot fit. However, black powder was, for a few centuries, the only blasting agent available. Hornady.452" SST or XTP 2.267 f.p.s. If the industry calls them a black powder substitute is that good enough? Not going to try it in any of MY muzzle-loaders!!!! Buicks take more deer than muzzleloading hunters do in my area. I have an accurate load shooting 16.5 grains of 2400. 5744 reloading powder is characterized by excellent ignition and consistency over a very wide performance range. In 1987, Accurate Arms started to move away from the surplus market and began selling newly manufactured propellants. Appendix 2 (or Addendix if you want it as the book has it) suggests using Accurate 5744, filling the case to the base of the seated bullet with 5744, then using a load of 40 percent of this. Seems most of them shoot it. To single out smokeless powder when 'black powder substitutes' as they are loosely referred to are competing directly with smokeless and can perform as well, or nearly as well. Is anyone using AC 5744 powder with this setup? Another frequent type of hunting accident is when a hunter mistakenly shoots another hunter moving through the woods. ", "A: Triple Seven is a high-energy propellant designed to provide the highest velocity possible out of modern muzzleloading rifles. … Gunsmithing. The peculiar motivation for that little stunt would read a bit like a novel, but it was shot down in a hurry. Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 385 Joined: Feb 23 rd, 2008. What sets us muzzleloaders apart is the fact that we have one shot and we are handloaders in the field. View Full Version : 5744 in a muzzle loader. Reply; Accurate 5744. I hunt strictly with my muzzleloader because I value the accuracy and the ability to harvest a deer humanely and limit the number of wounded animals, but what if I hunted with a legal handgun. Muzzleloader; Accurate arms 5744 powder; If this is your first visit, you will need to register before you are able to join in on a discussion. My savage holds 1.25 moa accuracy out to 400 yards and under 1 moa to 200. :groner: There is a man looking to get his ssa blown up. My best friend shoots 150 grains of Triple 7 and the same bullet. To view this Reloading Guide in a PDF format, click the red button below. We are handicapped with one shot when it comes to comparing us with general firearms. This is NOT, though - repeat NOT - something anyone who's not WELL versed in metalurgy and several other fields would EVER want to try. I would use my crossbow before I went back to black powder. It is perfectly legal to shoot this pistol utilizing a center-fire rifle cartridge and there is no talk of banning it, that I can see, and no reason to either. Share Thread. Like them, it also works fine as a full-charge powder for cartridges such as the.223 Remington and.308 Winchester, but it does so well with reduced charges that it’s a top choice for making smokeless rounds for black-powder rifles. These accidents could be long range, but usually aren't. Lee Martin records good velocity in .357 Maximum with AA 5744 under the cast Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC. I do use 5744 in her. It's for that reason we have a separate season. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the … I find Indiana particularly significant, as that is where the modern muzzleloading era in the United States was born, in 1939. That should end the "black powder equivalent theory." I think the same thing for muzzleloading, if we want it to grow, we have to accept everything.". Group Buys. Reloading & Wildcats. I also am in a profession where I have had the opportunity to investigate hunting 'accidents'. But if you like to shoot, if you enjoy practice and you shoot a lot, well, pellet burning can empty your wallet faster than a Park Avenue hooker. Both of our muzzleloaders are sighted in up to 150 yards. Part of the raw materials that goes into its manufacture are the bags of "dicyanamide". 44 gr. The huge advantage of propellant such as Accurate Arms has is that it is non-hygroscopic and non-corrosive. . How 'bout an empty shotshell full of Bullseye? That is well more than twice what Accurate Arms 5744 (and similar propellants) can be had for, and you get double the amount of shots from a common propellant like 5744. I enjoy muzzleloading, modern muzzleloading. 100 yard groups of 1.50" and less. I am sure the IDNR would not allow the weapon to be used, especially during the most heavily hunted portion of the Indiana deer season if it was dangerous or had excessive range. This allegedly produces velocities of 40-50 percent of full power loads. Re: Accurate Arms 5744 Reply #1 - May 27 th, 2011 at 6:24pm Print Post : The new edition of "Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook" lists 5744 … If you already have an account please login at the top of the page. It is right on the Hodgdon Triple Se7en "FAQ" page. Pyrodex, Triple Se7en, American Pioneer Powder, Black Mag 3, Accurate Arms 5744, and Hodgdon-IMR SR4759 are all smokeless powders as mandated by the DOT and the NFPA. I was. There is so much interest now in old guns and calibers that proper … What it will do, however, is allow you to shoot reduced loads, without fillers, in just about any cartridge, especially the older, low pressure, rifle … To maximize performance, the ballistics experts at Hodgdon Powder Co., Inc. have developed a comprehensive Reloading Guide to provide handloaders with current data for Accurate Powders. Rating - 100%. ", "But if the proposed ban becomes the rule, I will be unable to hunt with my smokeless rifle, the safest production muzzleloader made. Could mine shoot 200, probably. It seems to be ideal in those cases, although when the capacity increases to the size of the.458 Lott, you’ll need another choice. The lab analyzed Triple Se7en, and found what other chemists already had suspected: sodium dinitrobenzoate sulfonate. Mtgun44: check out The High Road website, black powder section for a video of FFFFg used in a Colt Pocket Pistol, [QUOTE=TNFrank; My own personal opinion is that if you're not using a rock to spark things off it's too modern for me. Gee I wonder how my Barrett fifty would work with a case full of 4fg? Rifles. 44 gr. Five years ago there was Pyrodex, now there are many black powder substitutes legal in Indiana. Our guide has extensive data for this powder, including reduced loads for large caliber rifles. I thing we will be reading about a x muzzle loader known as ol three finger one eyed gap tooth sorry butt. They can get 700% more cash out of your pocket with every shot in a special "muzzleloading propellant" labeled box. The reason most people choose the smokeless is that is doesn't stink, it isn't messy, it is economical, it does not corrode your equipment, you can see what you are shooting at, and you don't have to clean your gun every time you shoot it. 5744 is characterized by excellent ignition and consistency over a very wide performance range. Facebook; Twitter; Tumblr; LinkedIn; MySpace; Email ; Go to. Why? Just stumbled on SMOKELESS MUZZLELOADING INC in regards to smokeless in an ML: http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/loadingchart.html. I am telling you this because I want you to know that I am educated and very familiar with firearms. Maybe some one had a bad experience with Ping-Pong balls (nitrocellulose) or film (nitrocellulose) as a child? The results were recorded at http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/about/deercomment.pdf. This unique powder can be used in a wide range of rifle calibers and magnum handguns. There is a thread here at Cast Boolits, complete with pictures, of a Savage MLer letting go and nearly taking the LH off the user. Smokeless Powders ~ 8 Lb. GD. Accurate Arms 5744 is also clean burning. "shop hand: hey did you see this browning 45-70 levegun? If it's a muzzell loader, it's meant for black or sub if you must. Accurate 5744 Muzzleloader. The piles of deer taken for crop damage reasons across this country and the insurance companies that beg for more deer to be killed because of all the deer/car collisions are just daily reality in many places. Smokeless Unique or Accurate Arms 5744, IMR 3031 are fine too. It is good marketing, it is smart business, it is the American way. Was told that Accurate Arms 5744 would give close results to BP . During this visit, I am getting the hang of shooting 10ML-II. Poachers don't buy tags, they don't use "recommended" equipment, and they aren't all that concerned about seasons or safety. Older AA data recommended use of a mag primer with … You can also use a dacron filler and a magum primer. Accurate Arms XMP-5744 45 gr. With Accurate Arms 5744 START at 40 grains of powder by weight. I have read of people taking the Rem 700 ML and putting a new barrel on, possibly from pac-nor and maybe others, and using it with smokeless powder. This dipper yields right at 44.5 grains, at least using my dipping technique. 2.049 f.p.e. It is all money and marketing, for a substance in a bottle labeled as a "muzzleloading propellant" can bring $25 or $30 a pound. Back by popular demand! There will be more of these substitutes to come, will they all be legal as long as they smoke, even when they outperform smokeless?". The victim is usually the hunter himself dropping a weapon or pulling a weapon into a tree when it fires due to negligence. With Vihtavouri N110, please START with 37 grains of powder by weight. It was then, and it is now. I works just fine, actually VERY accurate, Yes, GOEX FFFFg in a Pieta 1860 Army, and with a .454 ball it cuts a nice ring of lead. Accurate Arms 5744 is too slow for the .45 Colt, it cannot find efficiency. i was in the gun shop earlier today looking for a good 45 colt revolver light enough to carry but enough to deal with upper end loads. Accurate Arms did not compile special data for any weapon. I works just fine, actually VERY accurate. when compared to all other muzzleloading propellants." That is good for over 160 shots, less than eleven cents a shot. All are used as reloading powders for modern cartridges and shotshells in addition to muzzleloading use. Your velocity will be very slightly higher and pressure very slightly lower with your 150 gr bullet instead of a 155 gr Lee. Those include BlackMag3, American Pioneer, and Hodgdon's Triple Se7en. Double-Action Revolvers. I feel that I am qualified to speak about this issue because I have hunted deer with a muzzleloader for years, and a smokeless muzzleloader since 2000. 300gr. I shot FFFFg in my Pieta replica 1860 Army today. It is well documented that the "dinitros" are used in low explosives while "trinitros" are employed in high explosives. I have nothing against primitive type muzzleloaders, I love to go to Friendship and watch the competitors, but I don't have knowledge to shoot those rifles, and quite frankly, don't want to clean up black powder rifles, that is the main reason I went to smokeless. Pyrodex was long ago marketed as a "smokeless propellant for muzzleloaders" right on every bottle. Photo by Randy Wakeman my 50/140 will use 48 grs with a 700 lead bullet at 1529 FPS I use 33.5 grs in my 458 win and that will thump you a good one. Black powder fouling exhibits both of these poor properties. and tends to burn out . This unique powder can be used in a wide range of rifle calibers and magnum handguns. clerk says yeah sure it's over there. To ship sodium dinitrobenzoate sulfonate as a dry powder you must ship it as an explosive. Triple Seven will provide the shooter with higher velocity, flatter trajectory and more down range energy when compared to all other muzzleloading propellants. Accurate Arms 5744 May 27 th, 2011 at 5:59pm Print Post : 38-40 Low Wall 30 " barrel . Folks might get a little confused at the reports that "Triple Se7en is hopped up with a little nitro." Really curious for the responses on this, I have heard the same rumor here from a co-worker. When they got the idea to try this, they found some info they needed, and developed the mods through trial and error, firing with the guns tied to an old tire. Also mention of 5744 with the Savage on Chuckhawks: http://www.chuckhawks.com/smokeless_powder_muzzleloading.htm. Additionally, the toxicity of Pyrodex is also documented. The latest trend in muzzleloading marketing is "sulfurless black powder replacements."
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